DGDB&D: a Texans blog. » Like regular camp, only miniature
Like regular camp, only miniature
by MattDay 1 of minicamp is in the books. Which means that day one of the Alex Gibbs era, the return of Barbaro, the likely immolation of Jacques Reeves, and a whole host of other stuff. Mmm…tastes like chicken, err, football.
Anyway, most of the quotes coming out after today’s workouts were what you’d expect. The rookies were wide-eyed and thrilled to be there; the team looks good, but has to shake off some rust; everyone’s goal for minicamp is just to improve and get comfortable with the new pieces and plans; blah blah blah.
One thing jumped out, however–that BFD’s fear seems likely to come to fruition. At least if take Kubes at his word.
(on how T Duane Brown looked) “Well, I’ll have to go back and see but, you know, we’ve got to see how far we can bring this kid in the next month and so we put him right in there with the first group today. And I know it was very tough on Ephraim (Salaam), and y’all know I have a great deal of respect for Ephraim and I can understand why it was tough, but as I explained to him, I’ve got to see how far I can bring this young man. But I know Ephraim’s going to do his job and I’m expecting good things from him, but we felt like we had to put this kid to work right away.
(on if T Duane Brown is first on the depth chart) “Yes, he’ll be working with the first group, and that’s the only way we’re going to find out if this kid’s going to get to where we want him to go and how quick he can get there. You draft these kids in the first round to come in and play and that’s nothing against Ephraim (Salaam), as I said, and we’ve had this conversation. But I understand the difficulty in that, but we as coaches feel like we have to put this kid to work right away.”
Hmm…what to make of this? I’d say (a) Gibbs wants his guy to play and he wants it NOW, (b) Kubiak realizes that the better half of Black Salaami isn’t all that good, and (c) Duane Brown really is the archetype ZBS LT that we need. Plus, there is probably a little (d) “tell the fanbase the kid is a bona fide #1 just to keep the natives from becoming restless” in there as well. Lord knows no one wants restless Houstonians running around.
At this point, I am inclined to believe that Brown will be the opening day starter at LT. Now, I understand the fears of him being eaten alive by the various monster RDEs in the AFC South, but there are two things that make me think he’ll be okay if he is the starter from dia una (takes large swig of the Kool-Aid):
First, I am just telling myself (over and over and over) that, Gibbs’ pet or not, he will not be the starter until he can really be the starter. By which I mean, trial-by-fire only goes so far, especially when you are talking about the guy who is protecting the blindside of your franchise QB’s surgically repaired shoulder. So he is only going to get this LT gig if he can really do it. Will he struggle against KVB, et al? Possibly. But the question is not can he stop KVB on every single down; the question is can he stop KVB (or whomever) more consistently than Salaam can? If the answer is yes, then by all means, throw him in there and let him show me that I was wrong when I broke the TV remote after his selection.
Second, though, I am taking some comfort in this little snippet from BRB:
In his first game at right tackle he faced none other than Mario Williams. At his post-draft press conference, Duane was asked to comment about his encounter with Williams.
“I remember that night like it was yesterday. I was two weeks into the position; it was the opener and a night game at NC State. (Mario Williams) is a very intimidating figure. I held my own that night and it was the beginning of my transition. Being able to go against him in practice, he is one of the best defensive ends in the league. I think practicing against him will be great for me and will help me.”
He started at right tackle for two full seasons before moving over to left tackle in his senior year. In those three years, Brown racked up 42 consecutive starts.
In his senior season, Brown boasted an outstanding 89% blocking consistency average. By comparison, the overall first pick in the 2008 NFL draft, Jake Long, had an 88% blocking consistency rating in his final year at Michigan.
As we all remember, Mario was a bad motor scooter in college. If Brown really did hold his own against Super Mario in his first ever game as a tackle, then he has some serious natural-born talent hidden away in there. And, for all the effort he gave us last year, that is something that Ephraim Salaam just doesn’t really possess.
Of course, if I am wrong to optimistic now (and, conversely, right to have been pissed on Draft Day), I reserve the right to give him a horrible nickname and point out again and again that we already had a ZBS LT on the roster in Eric Winston. I’m a fickle mofo like that.
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May 9th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Matt, glad you finally came around!! He will be what we want, more than what we have now….that means, better running, better passing and a healthier Qb. Big impact this year!
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May 9th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Hey Matthew,
I had to take a few chill pills last week, but I didn’t take them all. Would you like one?
I agree that this is a pretty scary potential situation, but I’m sticking by Kubes on this one, with Gibbs on the scene (man, that Kool Aid is tasty!). And with all the RBs we’ve got now, we’ll likely run the ball 80-85% of the time anyway, so he’ll basically have to pass block as much as we’ve asked Owen Daniels to.
We’re all goin to Brown Town! Hop in!
Yours in Christ,
Beef (bitches)
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May 9th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Apparently, Salaami ain’t to tickled about these turn of events!? Wouldn’t speak with the media after either practice today:
http://blogs.chron.com/gamedaytexans/2008/05/duane_browns_first_practice_ev.html
The kids going to have to own a pair facing Mario everyday and commenting on how he did on their first dance in college!
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May 10th, 2008 at 12:39 am
Jabba reporting on the running game:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5769240.html
Let’s get this party started!
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May 10th, 2008 at 8:01 am
Thoughts of Shanny Jr. & Sr. from the Denver media:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/may/09/yard-work-is-kyle-shanahans-baby-on-sundays/
Also, I don’t recall seeing any reference to the fact that Gibbs worked with Schaub in Atl.?! Worked with Matt, worked under/with Kube, worked for Shannys dad?!?
Could be the “perfect” storm?
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May 10th, 2008 at 8:20 am
Yahoo! Sports had a report and interview with Spencer:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AsN.azX_JOvKG1cOcqgcjGZDubYF?slug=ap-texans-spencer&prov=ap&type=lgns
I hope for the best yet, his injury was a SOB to swallow. Training camp will show if he makes it back (possible backup RG?) or if he has to find another line of work, to support his family.
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May 10th, 2008 at 11:31 am
I wonder sometimes if Kubiak actually knows any of the players’ names.
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“He’s a great kid, that kid. You know, the kid is just one of those kids. He can block as well as this kid, and he’s as quick as that kid. All in all, the kid is just one well-rounded kid.”
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May 10th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
You learn more from your failures than successes. You learn more from doing than from watching. They know who Salaam is. More reps won’t change that. So, better to get Brown out there no so he can learn, even if he is a year away from starting.
Also, if you’re a first rounder, and hubris has set in, getting slapped around by the first team may be just what you need.
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May 11th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Sorry guys, guess I was wrong!? When I sent the email to Matt, about maggot McClown, I could have sworn I heard him say that he’d be out of country. I emailed him and tried to call the radio station (while he was on air) for comfirmation. Program ended and no email (guess I shouldn’t “subject” the line to: fat-ass piece of shit.
My guess is the Chron wouldn’t pay the “extra” baggage charge for his lard ass!
Again, I appologize….
Do I lose my “Umlaut”?
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May 11th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
@10
McClain fixing to be on vacation for a couple of months. That’s the way he rolls. I guess he hasn’t left yet.
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Anybody dithering about the first draft pick needs to take a pill. Brown is the guy they liked at that part of the draft. They weren’t going to trade up but thought they could still get him and get more picks. Matt is going to give anyone who struggles with the team, rookie LT or anyone, a horrible nickname because it is a way for him to get out his frustrations in a way that doesn’t involve kicking puppies or something.
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It’s a nonsurprise to anyone other than McClain (who predicted a slow progression for Brown), that Brown is getting reps. They know what they have in Salaam, he doesn’t need a ton of reps on an aging body, but they are trying to see what they have in Brown. (Check out the early camp talk about Seth Wand in 2006 “he’s what you want in a LT” before they cut him.) They started third rounder Spencer over Salaam, so giving starter reps to Brown is a non-surprise.
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I’m non optimistic about Spencer. Radio reports out of minicamp say he walks with a limp still. Big guy even for a guard in a ZBS.
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May 12th, 2008 at 6:12 am
Not true. The only person I really got into last year was Petey, and he never even got a nickname. Well, unless you count “Jesus Christ, he fucking blows” a nickname.
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And I am sick of people saying that it’s wrong on bloggers’ parts to question certain draft picks. I’ve come around to Brown for a number of reasons, but if I hadn’t, I would still be justified in bitching about him for any number of reasons. This whole “give Kubiak the benefit of the doubt” thing on everything is annoying. For instance, taking a QB with our last pick when defensive players and WRs are really the only 7th rounders to pan out with any consistency and when you already have three QBs on the roster (and can pick up a young one as an UDFA)? That’s fucking stupid.
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Yes, I am sleep-deprived and grumpy right now. Still, it’s not the fact that they are “giving reps” to Brown that has people surprised. Hell, I agree that there is no need to overwork Salaam, since he is a known quantity. What is a fucking surprise is that Kubiak is already saying that Brown is number one on the goddamned depth chart.
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May 12th, 2008 at 10:08 am
@matt: When you’re running with the first team, you’re numero uno on the depth chart. There’s no other way for Kubes to phrase it. He’s also trying his best to massage the big guy’s confidence, knowing he’s got a summer full of bitch slaps, Mario-style, to deal with. I think we can all rest assured that Kubes/Gibbs will not let him remain No.1 if he keeps up his suckery. You’ve gotta remember, though, that he’s trying to unseat Ephraim Effing Salaam, and not Jonathan Ogden or Tony “Big Junk” Boselli. Wait… What?
Point is, even if he’s dead-even with Salaami in the eyes of the coaches, I’d prefer to have the young guy in there.
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May 12th, 2008 at 10:11 am
I guess I never understood why you felt “right to be pissed on draft day” or “justified in bitching about him for any number of reasons.”
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But then again, I have a bias towards 1. Thinking that most draft opiners (bloggers or otherwise) are full of feces; 2. Because I want people to make opinions based on actual knowledge, football IQ, etc, and not because they looked up a bunch of third hand information on the interwebs and figured it had to be true. I have a bias against people pretending to know more than what they really know. (Which should be one of the lessons learned from that draft of 2006).
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This whole I hate this guy except now I love this guy stuff is kinda irritating. They are all baby players with potential. If they work hard, have skills, they fit the team, don’t get hurt, and get lucky, then it all works out. If they don’t, well that’s that. For example Adibi could be the best guy evaaaaar, or a guy who never sees the field because of a hamstring issue that gets chronic. It’s why the draft is a crap shoot for everyone, and why I don’t get my knickers in a wad about the draft with definitive opinions of this pick is AWESOME or this pick is fbomb stupid or whatever. That I look to whether the picks make sense in general, learn more about them, try to figure out why the Texans might have picked this guy instead of that guy, and then hope for the best that they don’t get injured in a game meant to injure them.
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BTW, I don’t buy into all the folks crushing the QB choice. I think this is the easy pick to quibble with, like David Anderson was in the past (who by the way, ended up doing a ton of dirty work for the team). WCO teams often take a QB they think who will fit late, and develop them. They can use them for practice, and if there is anything to them, they can trade them away or use them. Gray can’t live on the practice squad, and this is a guy that they really wanted, a guy who they think will fit their system and their locker room. You say that they could pick up one as a UDFA, but I believe that the Texans believe in players, not just fungible positions. Especially on offense, there are very specific things they are looking for.
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You say you reserve the right to give Brown an awful nickname, and I will take back my speculation about why. My personal blogging preference is to criticize play and not players because 1. it is nicer and I prefer to roll that way; 2. a lot of player family and friends read the blogs because they can’t find thoughtful criticism in a lot of places; 3. I might run into them in person, and I won’t say anything unless I would be willing to say it to their faces because anything else is cowardly and unpricipled; 4. I’m a fan of the team. I don’t want to be one of those “with fans like these, who needs enemies” kind of people.
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I think you are quibbling because you are sleep deprived and grumpy right now, which is understandable. I find chocolate helps, but that might just be a female response.
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May 12th, 2008 at 11:37 am
@Beef: Point taken re: depth chart semantics. And I agree whole-heartedly agree that, all things being equal, give me the kid in there. As far as Kubes not letting him be the starter if he sucks, that was the point of my OP, so we are in agreement there, too.
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@steph: You do realize that the point of this whole post was basically why I am trusting Kubes and Co with this move re: displacing Salaam, right? Or did you get into sanctimonious mode too quickly to catch that part?
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You keep saying “third hand information” as a reason why non-coaches don’t know what they are talking about, as if I (and others) are getting our facts about players from their cousin’s babymama or something. Other than face-to-face interviews, any fan with NFL Network and the internet has access to all the same info the teams do. We can watch the combine, we can watch video, we can compare the players’ measurables, etc. This is only third-hand in the sense that we weren’t in the buildings when these things took place, but my presence does not change a 40-time. And, given that we are all working from the same information, until you show me a team that hits a homerun with every one of its picks in a given year, I refuse to defer to their interpretation 100% of the time.
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I came around to the Brown pick because, despite being a reach (and he was a reach, regardless of what SD was going to do, as BFD so artfully pointed out), Kubiak recovered and got three players I felt would be a good fit for our model (Okam, Adibi, and Slaton) as well some DB help. Obviously (and as you pedantically pointed out), the end-result of all draft speculation hinges on health/work ethic/luck. Which is why I don’t like “grades” for drafts. But the end result–i.e. will Brown become a pro bowler–is not important when my comment about him is focusing on whether he is CURRENTLY a fit for our team (he is) or whether he was a slight reach (he was). If he becomes great, then the reach paid off and we got a great deal on him, but he was still a reach at the time. (Though, again, I’ll point out that this post was about why I think the current move of making the job his to lose is a good play.)
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As far as not saying stuff because a family member might read it, I doubt it is news to Petey’s cousins that he blows. And, as far as telling him that in person, I’d have no problem with that, either.
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Re: the QB selection. Fair enough. Though taking a player and developing him on the practice squad would make more sense on a team that doesn’t have so many holes.
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May 12th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
I don’t mind the Brink pick, because A. Kubes said he was prolly gonna do it, and B. Didn’t we turn Drew Henson into a 3rd round pick a few years back by weighing the risk/reward of a QB? Point is, if he ever contributes to the team, great… If he ever turns into trade-bait and we get anything better than a 7th, great… If he does absolutely nothing and gets cut, he’s still a better passer than VY and he’s just like almost every other 7th round pick ever. Not everyone gets a Colston in the 7th, duder. I’ve got no beef with what’s been done.
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May 12th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
any fan with NFL network does NOT have all the same info the teams do. Fans don’t get to see the interviews that can give the coaches an idea of not only what kind of person a player is, but also how x’s and o’s smart the guy is. Fans might have a huge library of college games on the Tivo, but even with that most can’t pull up every snap a kid played his last year of college. Even if they could it’s still the TV feed which depending on the camera angle for any given play can be absolutely worthless for evaluating a specific player. Fans can’t call up the kids old coaches and get their opinions on a player without a camera in his face….well I guess you could try, but I doubt you would get very far.
Fans have combine numbers, what they saw on TV, and scouting reports from people who we assume have watched a lot of tape of a player. Combine numbers are just one piece of the puzzle, and it’s well documented how many mistakes the Kipers of the world makes. What we see on TV is only as good as the eyes watching it.
I think Brown running with the first team is great, for right now. He needs the reps more than Salaam. As long as Kubiak is ready to start Salaam and bring Brown along more slowly if thats the better option once the season rolls around.
I still say we went QB in the 7th because we would have been pretty far down on the list of UDFA because we are already three veterans deep at QB and we wanted to have a little choice of who was going to run the practice squad. Whatever other position we missed out on by taking a QB with the last pick was easier to fill than it would have been trying to get a QB to sign with us when he knew he had no chance of making the team.
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May 12th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
@beef: look at the track record of WRs and defensive players from the seventh round that have panned out as compared to QBs from that round.
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@papabear: “Other than face-to-face interviews, any fan with NFL Network and the internet has access to all the same info the teams do.” I agree that we don’t have access to every snap that a kid played, but if you are suggesting that Kubiak watched every snap every guy on their draft list played this year prior to making the picks, then we are going to have to disagree. Even with access to every play, there is still only a finite amount of time to watch those snaps.
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May 12th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
@matt: Good point. In my face.
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May 12th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
@beef: I totally didn’t mean it in a smart-assed way, you know. Didn’t want it to come off that way, either. I just figured that, if you are going to take a flier on a guy, take one on a position (a) that we need or (b) that has a decent record of becoming an NFL starter.
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May 12th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Don’t mean to be sanctimonious–it’s a perception risk one takes when someone tries to be militantly niiiiiiiice as a lifestyle (AFC South opponents and Cowboys notwithstanding). I understood what you are saying, but I just don’t get fan draft whiplash (hate this pick, er, maybe it is ok) because of my pet peeve of believing that fans get a little overly opinionated about draft stuff based on crap information. Just providing a slightly different point of view because you would be bored if everyone agreed with you all the time. Or maybe it’s just me that would be bored that way.
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Fans have access to combine info, some wonderlic info, hardly any video, and a bunch of moronic anonymous third hand draft reports that say things like DeMeco Ryans isn’t athletic. Teams have access to interviewing players and coaches, questionaire answers, medical info, lots of test info beyond wonderlic, investigating players, private workouts and watching not just snippets of tape but often coaches tape. Though we might have a general view of what they want in players, they have a very defined view.
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At least for me, I am not going to pretend I know enough about these college players to say whether I think they will be good NFL players or not. I do think based on information that is public that I understand the Texans draft.
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I’m not asking fans to completely defer their opinion about the draft to teams, as some things that teams do are hard to justify or understand even after some looking. I just think a lot of the handwringing and kevetching is based on really crappy information. Stats and combine numbers don’t play football. They don’t fit systems and they don’t fit locker rooms.
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I still don’t think Brown was a reach. You said that BFD made the artful case that he was a reach, and I looked back to find that blog post because I’m not persuaded of that at all. In the salary cap era, LT is a position of value, like D-line. If you get the right guy, they can play for you forever. Are you saying it is an overdraft because we missed on a possibly overrated Big Ten runningback or a bunch of DEs in a not deep DE draft? Of course, line guys are the ones that fans-as-draft guys often whiff on because line play isn’t as flashy as the skill positions, especially at big programs.
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Granted the Texans have a ton of holes, but who do you wish that they took in the 7th round that you think would make the squad? I still think that with a decent practice squad QB, they have improved their flexibility. They can keep three quarterbacks on the roster, or chuck Gray if he doesn’t fit.
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Of course, you would tell Petey in person that he blows. He’s your size. Try telling that to Duane Brown, for instance. I still maintain it wasn’t Petey’s fault he was put in a starter’s position even when that is clearly what he wasn’t. You find it more fun to criticize players, and I find it more enlightening to criticize play. You might find that is a distinction without a difference, but it’s just one I feel better about. YRMV.
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C’mon, you like it when people disagree with you. We really aren’t disagreeing, other than the way we got to the position that we are okay with Kubiak giving Brown reps in a May minicamp.
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May 12th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
@ Steph: I’d also tell Duane Brown. Receiving an asswhooping is a small price to pay to be able to sue someone who just got a PHAT signing bonus.
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May 12th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
These comments are too smart and insightful. They are making my head hurt trying to process all the information.
Quick, someone make a mindless (and potentially blasphemous) dick joke. Or at least reference tranny porn…
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May 12th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Receiving an asswhooping is a small price to pay if you like it when people disagree with you, and are militantly nice….did I get that quote right?
Anna Megan
(how’s that grunge?)
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May 12th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Tex,
are you implying that Anna Megan is in tranny porn?
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May 12th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
I think I’m alright with the Brink pick now. You can point to guys like David Anderson, but ultimately we could have picked somebody off of the street to do his job last year. It just happened to be convenient for us to be able to promote from within the organization. And as for late-round QBs panning out? Well, Tom Brady turned out to be decent.
Any besides, I’m not sold on Quinn Gray as a back-up. I’m fine with him as a third-stringer, but there’s gotta be a reason we got him for near the league minimum. If Kubiak was pretty high on Brink, I’m guessing that at the very worst, he’ll be an incompetent QB who fits our system well. If he becomes anything more than that, we’ll feel much more comfortable trading Sage.
Smithiak has a decent track record so far. I figure they’ve earned a freebie pick to gamble with.
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May 12th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
@22- The #1 rule I’ve learned as a lawyer is that you never ever ever want to be a good plaintiff, you just want to be the good plaintiff’s lawyer. Yeah, if you get grievously hurt, you want to be hurt by a tortfeasor with money, but it is better not to be grievously hurt or deaded in the first place. (Ew, I think that is the first time I’ve used the word tortfeasor in years. I think I need to wash).
@26- The reason why the Jags got rid of Gray is that he was agitating for the starting job and underminding Garrard. I’m guessing that is part of the reason why people weren’t beating the doors down for him–teams want a team guy. Maybe there was more than that.
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It says a lot that Jacksonville chucked Gray, even though the Jags just gave a big contract to a guy with one only one good year playing basic-make-no-mistakes ball, who stands all of 6′1″ and has already lost a foot of intestines to Crohn’s disease, a chronic disease where it is possible to have repeated flareups. (David Garrard, Cleo Lemon, Todd Bouman, Paul Smith–that’s a dreadful lineup to boot a serviceable QB from).
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For the minimum, the Texans can either keep Gray or chuck him if he isn’t a good guy. Not much of a risk. Getting a 7th round pick QB that Kubiak likes (smart, accomplished), gives the Texans more flexibility.
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People can say David Anderson was just a fungible throwaway guy, but Kubiak liked him in particular because he likes Rudy-types who are smart and bust their tails in camp. Those were qualities he knew he was getting in Anderson. He could do a ton of stuff on offense and special teams.
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May 13th, 2008 at 7:32 am
@matt#20: No, I was being for serious too. You DID make a good point, and wagged it in my face. Full-on props for nailing it. My only possible retort would’ve sounded something like Kubiak being a QB guy, and if he gets one to work out, it could pay off due to that being one of two positions teams will significantly overpay for (the other being LT) **see us last year on the Shaub and rumored Orlando Pace deals, there are likely many other examples, but they don’t involve us.
We were both being fo-reals, which is always difficult when you’re dealing with smart asses of our collective caliber.
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May 13th, 2008 at 7:53 am
@matt: I’m not saying Kubiak did, but there’s a good chance that someone in the Texans coaching/scouting/front office watched a good bit of tape on the players we drafted. The higher a player was drafted the more time was likely spent scouting him.