Why I {heart} Morlon Greenwood
Jul 21, 2008 Demarcus Faggins sucks, Morlon Greenwood, Stats, Underrated
So, in the comments to this post, Steph (echoed by Lee) asked:
Uh, I don’t know why you love Morlon Greenwood so much. He gets a lot of tackles, (after the offensive player drags him a little bit). He has one of the largest salaries on the team, and I don’t see him even as a average linebacker in the league. Heck, some might make the argument that he isn’t even above the average for linebackers on this team.
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I know you heart MG, and I’m only bringing this up to have a discussion of it because I’ve never understood your Greenwood love.
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Is it just the stats? Or are you seeing something in his play that is not as obvious as what you see with DeMeco. Ryans gets fat stats, but his play is so obviously outstanding when you watch it.
First things first, I want to make clear that I am not alone in my love for Morlon, nor in my assertion that he is incredibly underrated. Along with a penchant for drinking too much, our appreciation for Greenwood is one of the things Tim and I have in common. From BRB:
Morlon Greenwood is the most underrated defensive player in the NFL. That’s right. I said it.
I’ve been trying to analogize another player in MLB or the NBA to better describe the lack of credit Morlon Greenwood receives despite his stellar play. Greenwood’s body of work this season clearly screams Pro Bowl, but he’s got no chance of actually getting a ticket to Honolulu. I’m stumped.
Morlon Greenwood was so ridiculously good yesterday (13 tackles and a sack) that he gets to be first. Frankly, he played like DeMeco Ryans. Which was good, because DeMeco was hampered by a bum knee and didn’t have his typical impact. Greenwood was all over the field throughout the entire afternoon. I’ve noted before that Morlon was quietly having a great year, though he has about as much chance as getting to Honolulu in February as I do. In light of that, he’ll have to settle for this: His effort against the Bucs was about as good as a linebacker can play.
Not that agreement between two idiot bloggers is dispositive of the issue, mind you. I just wanted to make clear that I am not making stuff up or living in some hallucinogenic haze. Well, at least not with respect to the Jamaican Destroyer. (Yes, I just made up that nickname.)
So, what makes Morlon so good?
First, Greenwood has fantastic instincts. Not just, “oh, he’s a smart football player” type instincts, but more “damn, this dude always seems to be in the right place at the right time.” For just one example, mainly because it was the easiest one to see on television last year, in the Arizona preseason game, he had backside contain, saw the Cards’ formation (empty backfield), saw where Petey was matched up against Edge in the slot, knew Petey was going to get beat (safe guess), and broke from his WLB position to the middle of the field to try and make the play Petey would not. Unfortunately, Petey got roasted so badly off the line that Greenwood did not have the time to get there (the line of the scrimmage was the 5), but it was one of those plays that few WLBs would have had the presence of mind to even attempt.
Second, and more importantly, Greenwood is putting up solid numbers week in and week out while playing WLB in a 4-3 run by a man who isn’t qualified to suggest plays to you on Madden. Is Greenwood as good as Lance Briggs? No, of course not. But 118 tackles, 1 sack, 4 PDs, a Forced Fumble, and an INT is a VERY productive season for a weakside linebacker, even in a system where the DC knows how to utilize all three LBs properly. In our system? That is a FANTASTIC year. In fact, that stat line is so good that part of me wonders why in the world we have to have this conversation. (It is also a line so good that those who “might make the argument that he isn’t even above the average for linebackers on this team” should be dismissed as stupid.)
Overall, Greenwood has posted 112, 109, and 118 tackles, respectively, in his three seasons as a Texan. Now, while I fully realize that tackle numbers can be inflated when the players in front of the LB suck (or, in the case of Jamie Sharper’s ridiculous numbers, when you are running a 3-4 without a real NT and EVERY play gets funneled to you), I also know that Greenwood’s numbers as a Texan are better than what Derrick Johnson has put up in KC over the same time-frame. And, much like our line, it’s not like KC has been running a bunch of All Pros out there in front of DJ. Additionally, when moved from the SLB to the WLB position in Miami, Greenwood posted 108 tackles there and that Miami defense ranked 8th in the league in yards allowed. So I think it’s fair to say that Greenwood is not the “beneficiary” of poor play in front of him as much as he is just a good Weakside Linebacker.
Finally, there is the fact that Greenwood and DeMeco are like peas in a pod when it comes to film study and play. I put this point last on purpose because I generally think chemistry is overrated. For instance, last year, when Dunta was defending Petey as CB2, saying “I know what he’s doing over there; we work well together,” that didnt really mean much because they were on opposite sides of the field and one’s play was independent of the other 99.5% of the time. When you are talking MLB and WLB, however, that sort of thing does matter to a certain extent. If they are consistently on the same page and DeMeco never has to wonder if Morlon is picking up the same cues and/or if Morlon is playing his assignment correctly, then that frees DeMeco to be even more of a destructive force and lets him focus 100% of his attention elsewhere. While I don’t think good chemistry alone would be a reason to keep him, I certainly think it is something in Greenwood’s favor.
In the end, though, it comes down to the first two points. He has shown great instincts and quietly used those instincts and his natural ability to post a 2007 season that almost any team would be thrilled to get from their WLB. Did it come at a hefty price tag? Perhaps. But at least the money spent on Morlon was paid for top-notch play. Unlike, say, the checks that Anthony Weaver cashed every two weeks. And, besides, it’s not like Morlon’s salary made it so we could not afford some other great WLB who was available this past offseason, so I’m not entirely sure that his cost is germane to this conversation.
Now, obviously, Greenwood will be 30 this year and he can’t play forever. And, as much as I love the guy, if Adibi takes his job after this season based on the performance of one or both of them in 2008, I am not going to lose any sleep. But, until that day comes, I think Texans fans need to realize how well Greenwood is playing every week and be thankful that we have him.
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July 21st, 2008 at 11:32 am
I should have added that I hate comments like “he gets tackles after being dragged a bit.” I can think of about three times that happened last year and one was against Jamal Lewis, who was running roughshod over us. But, beyond that, I defy anyone to find me a LB who doesn’t come in a little too high or at a poor angle once or twice in a season (at least). That is one of those dismissive, message-board-type statements that does nothing but try to discount something a guy does well.
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Here’s my thing with MG. He’s efficient, but not considered a “playmaker.” If he did what he does now, plus MORE PD’s, MORE FF’s, MORE INT’s, MORE sacks - then he’s suddenly Shawn Merriman on even more steroids. There’s no reason to make replacing him a priority unless you have a sure thing, bona fide playmaker, which they’re of course hoping Adibi will become. But until that day comes, you’re “stuck” with a guy who makes 110+ tackles EVERY SEASON. We have much bigger issues to deal with than that.
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Before last season, I was a little down on him too, but last year I watched him very carefully, and I don’t see the problem… that said, his salary is pretty huge, and as you say he’s aging. I don’t see any reason why he won’t do the same for the team as he did last year, but now with his heir apparent, Adibi, soaking up all kinds of knowledge, and getting tight with DeMeco (hopefully).
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Also, isn’t he some kind of Reggae rapper or something? You need that on your team!
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Nice. Complimenting Greenwood and destroying Petey in the same sentence. Who would’ve seen that coming from Matt? What’s that? Everyone? Oh, nevermind then.
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:18 pm
@DiehardChris: I can agree with all of that pretty much. And I think you hit on something with the Merriman reference. People see the numbers Merriman and DeMarcus Ware put up as OLBs in a 3-4 and don’t realize that Morlon’s role is entirely different than theirs.
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But, yeah, the bigger point is that you have a guy who plays his position as well or better than most other 4-3 WLBs in the league, so why even have him on your list of “to be fixed” until you’ve addressed a whole lot of other stuff. Now, unless he makes a jump to that “next” level or whatever, I don’t see a need to resign him at this pricetag when he is 32. So, you’ve got two years to turn Adibi or Diles into a 110-tackle WLB.
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As one further aside, I would LOVE to see what Greenwood could do under a real Defensive Coordinator.
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July 21st, 2008 at 12:19 pm
And, yes, he’s a rapper. He’s Ultimate56 on Youtube and he rocks the party that rocks your body.
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@Shake: I am nothing if not consistent.
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Matt - Nice write up. MG deserves his roster spot and your highlight is a welcome tonic during the football “doldrums”.
Got a question/request: There’s a lot of bashing of Richard Smith Defensive Coord. I know he’s rather new at being DC, but could you give a write-up like this one on Morlon to explain and pin point the issues you/others have with him? I know, I know, I DID watch all the games; but with the personnel he had (left with due to injuries) what could he have done to improve the defense?
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:36 pm
@pushmback: Here’s a post I did that links to two others re: Richard Smith. I might try to work something new up before the season starts, though, just so it’s all front and center.
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Not to mention it’s always good to have a guy with a killer Jamaican accent.
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Ok, now really I just wrote that last comment because I finally signed up with a fucking Gravatar and that shit didn’t come up! What the fuck?!
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:43 pm
I see your Duff beer Gravatar. Clear your cache. They can also take up to 10 minutes to show.
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Speaking of Gravatars, I can’t get mine to consistently be Fred flexing. It keeps reverting to the ninja dude.
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July 21st, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Oh yeah… I knew that.
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July 21st, 2008 at 2:56 pm
I think people’s problem with MG is that he flies so far under the radar to be thought of as worth all that cizz-ash. He never makes huge hits, or does anything truly spectacular, but there’s alot to be said for the fact that he’s one of the guys always around the ball, and obviously he’s got solid numbers for doing his job. I gots no beef with MG whatsoever. That jerk chicken eatin’ motherfucker.
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July 21st, 2008 at 3:17 pm
@beef: I think you might be on to something there—a lot of people parrot what they hear on radio/TV and that info is driven more by hype and highlights than by performance. Thing is, how many spectacular, highlight reel 4-3 WLBs can those same people name? Lance Briggs is the only one I can think of (which, by the way, is the same reason I have had a “Lance Briggs’ open invitation” tag for posts for over a year now).
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Which is my long-winded way of saying that people who base their evaluation of players on ESPN highlights should be defenestrated.
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July 21st, 2008 at 5:25 pm
I guess it is stupid person here. At least for me alone, I am not basing my view of Greenwood’s play on a stat line or a message board or blogginations or whatever because I don’t believe in that either. I’ve watched every play the Texans have made since their beginning, and masochistically, sometimes more often than once on TiVO. Stats don’t play linebacker, and based on my observations I really do think he gets dragged some on his tackles more than the 3 times you indicate, but I suppose we can’t really say that without going game by game.
I know what you said, but I truly believe the linebacker stat totals (including DeMeco’s from both of his years)are artificially inflated because the work on the line has been catastrophically horrible for a multitude of reasons. Teams have been able to pick their poison either with the run or the pass because the Texans have been so bad at stopping both. DeMeco’s DROY was based not on stats (which were clearly impressive), but on his instinctive, smart, sharp tackling abilities. Guys get hit, stay tackled. His play stood out like a diamond among turds.
Stats can’t prove the point, nor can lining up all the people who agree with you. Tim agrees with you, and I supposed I could cut and paste various people who agree with me.
Linebacking skills are based on what you see. Not a stat line, and of course, different people can see different things.
I’d love to hear what your friend KC says about it.
You and Tim have a view that is very different than what I have seen, and I just wondered where your love comes from. So it is said.
I don’t hate MG, or think his play is fagginesque but I will say it would make me like him a whole lot more if the Texans were able renegotiate his contract. You see him as underrated, and Tim says Pro Bowl, and I see him as Just A Guy. A nice guy, good to fans, gets along with DeMeco, raptastic, but Just A Guy who is getting paid.
Is this the part of DGDB&D where I am supposed to insult you? If that is required, I will call you a poopyhead. Otherwise, I will ask for bfd to give you a leg hug because it would be unseemly for me to do that.
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July 21st, 2008 at 5:45 pm
@Steph: You can add me as someone who agrees with you, but that’s not exactly a ringing endorsement. To say the least.
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July 21st, 2008 at 5:46 pm
The point is, throughout the entire year, based on what we were seeing from him each week during the game (not just based on tackle totals), Greenwood stood out as playing very well. That’s not an accident or a fluke. That’s not a stat total. The play in the Arizona game was not reflected in the stat sheet at all, but demonstrated great instincts on his part.
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Unfortunately many (if not most) people don’t understand the role of a WLB, just like many fail to grasp the importance of a distinct NT and UT in a standard 4-3. This lack of understanding means that, unless they see a guy getting a ton of sacks or 200 tackles, they think he is underperforming when, in reality, he’s playing his position exactly like he should be. Case in point: Most people can’t name the starting WLB for the Super Bowl Champion New York Giants (Kawika Mitchell), let alone tell you that he had a great year for them. His line: 76 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 1 FR, 1 INT. Alternatively, people will tell you that David Thornton is a very good player (he is) and point to his stat line…which is nearly identical to Greenwood’s (Thornton had 4 more tackles, 3 more PDs, 1 more INT playing on a defense that allowed him to be used as OLBs were intended).
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But, what you are saying is that stats can’t prove the point, other people agreeing with me can’t prove the point, an analysis of his production in comparison with other players at his position can’t prove the point, a look at how his play behind our poor line compared with his play in Miami’s 8th-ranked defense can’t prove the point…what CAN prove it, then? What you see on TiVo?
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Finally, I still fail to see what his salary has to do with this discussion. We weren’t hamstrung by it or prevented from signing someone we would otherwise have been in the market for. Moreover, he’s only signed through the 2009 season and has a cap hit of less than $1.5MM if he was cut right now. If you want to bitch about a salary in relation to performance, I can think of at least two other guys making about the same amount who would be better targets for that.
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July 21st, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Nobody can prove anything when different sets of eyes see things differently. It’s called being a human. But I think this subject is worth having a discussion about in our bar here. The best part of blogs is giving you things to think about and things to look for while watching games. Makes the games richer.
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I think stats have their place, but football is different than baseball when interpreting the meaning of stats, as your example suggests. So with things like linebacker play, you really have to rely on what you see. You see shiny happy things from Greenwood, me not so much.
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Are we seeing performances of two Pro Bowl caliber linebackers who happen to play for the same team, or something different than that?
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I have problems with any player who doesn’t play up to their contract because it gives us less money to play around with. Weaver’s contract is screwed with the way it is structured so he’s staying put. If Green isn’t reliable in camp, he is on the bubble of being gone. Kubiak doesn’t want guys on the active roster that we are counting on that on game day can’t be counted on to play.
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It will be interesting to see how the linebacker competition goes in camp. I hope Kubiak is able to keep DeMeco of the field some.
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July 21st, 2008 at 6:19 pm
And he’s a rapper!
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July 21st, 2008 at 6:52 pm
CBS Sports ranked Greenwood as the #28 LB in the NFL.
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:14 pm
@Steph:
Do you not understand how much felon penis Matt has seen? Do you think there’s anything I can whip out that’d impress him? Sheesh!
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Two things I love about MG that aren’t measurable:
1. he seems to be in on every play. There were a couple of games last year that there seemed to be two or three MGs on the field at any given time.
2. And it goes with #1, but he never seems to take a play off. Out of everybody UT has trotted through that system over the years, Casey Hampton is still my all-time fave. Why? He was at 100% on every freakin’ snap. I’ve never seen another player like him, but I think we have two of those with DeMeco and MG (and Mario is quickly heading toward that ranking).
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Is this another case where a dude seriously needs a nickname?
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July 21st, 2008 at 7:38 pm
@bigfatdrunk: Casey Hampton was downright sick to watch in live games. That type of effort on every snap is another reason I really liked Ramonce (pre-felon).
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:39 pm
I think he is good, I just don’t think he is that great. He’s not “worth the money” that the Texans pay him. I actually like him a good deal, seems like a decent guy and I’m all for that, but I just don’t see what you are seeing Matt. I’ll watch him closer this year, maybe it’s there and I’m just missing it.
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:40 pm
And to the point that money doesn’t matter, I disagree. You never know what was out there that we could have been in on given money not being as much of an issue. I’m not saying there is something for sure, but I’m not sure we can unequivocally say that there wasn’t. How do we know a trade wasn’t nixed during the draft due to salary? Again, it’s unlikely, but it’s not a non-issue
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:42 pm
@Lee - UofTOrange: Re: Money. Because the flipside is he could have been cut as a June 1 guy for less than $2MM in cap hit. Way less, in fact. So if that was the sticking point, it could have been done. PLUS, we had cap space going into the offseason.
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July 21st, 2008 at 9:45 pm
@Lee - UofTOrange: What’s not to see about a guy who is, as BFD said, seemingly always around the ball, is near the top of the league in tackles, has numbers that match David Thornton, and who by all objective measures had a good to very good season for his position, despite being handicapped by the worst DC in the league?
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July 21st, 2008 at 10:49 pm
@Matt: If he’s always around the ball, then why doesn’t he have more tackles for a loss? I rarely see him in the backfield. If his instincts are as good as you say, then he should be getting behind the line of scrimmage once in a while, right? That’s not all on Richard Smith. Now it sounds like I’m dogging him. I’m really not, I like him. He’s good, he’s fine. I definitely don’t think he’s teh suck. But I also don’t fall into the ZOMG!!! Most Underrated Player EVAR!!1!! camp. And for me, money isn’t the issue. I just don’t see above-average when I watch him. Just my 2 cents.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 12:27 am
I’ve long thought about Morlon Greenwood and how people seem to hate the guy because of his contract (have these people not heard of Anthony Weaver). But saying he’s the most under-rated defensive player in the league is a tad much. Aaron Smith, Jamaal Williams, Aaron Schoebel, Nnamdi Asomugha (although he’s getting lots of love this pre-season)… the list would go on a bit before I’d come across Morlon Greenwood.
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As you note, tackles is a dubious statistic to cite, as it’s largely a function of how much the players in front of you suck and how much opposing offenses gear their plays towards you. The numbers (according to footballoutsiders.com) don’t look good for Morlon when provided some much-needed context: he only made the tackle in 45% of the rushes to his area of the field. What does that mean? Well, footballoutsiders only bothered ranking the linebackers that managed to meet their threshold of 48 plays on the year. 99 linebackers qualified, and Morlon Greenwood ranked… 99th. DeMeco made 60% of the tackles on rushes in his direction.
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He was also targeted on 54 passing plays (most in the LB corps) and had a success rate of 38%. Only Chaun Thompson had a lower success rate on the Texans, and Thompson’s stats are skewed due to sample size issues. (Success rate is defined as “the percentage of plays targeting this player on which the offense did not have a successful play. This means not only incomplete passes and interceptions but also short completions which do not meet our baselines for success (45 percent of neede yds on first down, 60 percent on second, and 100 percent on third and fourth down.”)
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He also allowed more yards per play than any other Texans linebacker, although again, with the turnstyle at the SAM position, sample sizes are a problem. Morlon allowed 6.3 yards per play on 123 plays, versus 4.9 for DeMeco on 135 plays. Danny Clark (4.3 yds avg on 44 plays), Charlie Anderson (4.2, 25), Kevin Bentley (5.8, 17), and Chaun Thompson (2.1, 15) don’t really convince me that Morlon’s look bad because of sample sizes though because of the consistent numbers that we see on the SAM position (it averages out to 4.2 yds per play on 101 plays).
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The numbers in the paragraph above almost make me wonder if he really was playing as a Will backer. There’s no tight end to contend with on the weak side (hence the name), so why are there so many plays to Morlon Greenwood’s area of the field? Why was he targeted so many pass plays? I would imagine the strong side would have more plays to it because of either passes to the tight end or runs behind the tight end. Maybe Richard Smith really, really sucks and had Greenwood covering slot receivers a lot?
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Shouldn’t a weak side backer have more than 1 sack, 1 hit, and 3 hurries on the season?
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I don’t want to bury the guy; I admit, I haven’t been able to see a ton of Texans games because I’m in New Mexico (which rides the bandwagon of whoever has the best record between the Cardinals, Cowboys, and Broncos). And even if I did, I’m not a scout or anything. If he clicks with DeMeco and allows him to do his thing as a pro-bowl player, then it’s hard to argue with that. But it doesn’t seem as if he’s irreplaceable.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 1:58 am
On second thought, I suppose it’s fair to concede that a Will backer wouldn’t generally have the rush-stop statistics that a Sam or Mike backer would. But still, 45% stop rate isn’t even average, and he was still last amongst ranked linebackers.
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He should be better against the pass than those statistics bear out as well. I suppose the sheer amount of targets in his direction can probably be attributed to him being in zone coverage a lot, or covering running backs out of the backfield. I still content that he should also have at least more hurries than that as well, but that could probably be chalked up to scheme.
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If I can manage to muster up the motivation to do so, I’ll dig out Pro Football Prospectus 2007 and see what the stats in that one indicate about the 2006 season. It’s probably more of the same… which tells me that although it’s a position we should be keeping an eye on, we’ve probably got bigger fish to fry as well, especially if DeMeco really does think Morlon enables him to play as he wishes.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 2:21 am
Oh, and finally, if you need yet another reason to check out footballoutsiders (basically the football version of baseball prospectus), check out this article: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2008/07/21/ramblings/dvoa-ratings/6381/
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Things to know: DVOA = Defense-adjust value over average. The higher the better (for offensive players). DYAR = Defense-adjusted yards above replacement. Again, the higher the better. Basically, DVOA is a “rate” stat (like a percentage - think batting average, I guess), whereas DYAR is a “total” stat (like RBIs, I guess).
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Anyway, it rates out David Carr’s presence on the field in 2002 as a negative for the team. Obvious, you say? Well, it also rates that season as the worst for any QB since 1995 that threw more than 300 passes. Which includes Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Tim Couch… yuck.
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Don’t act like I never told ya. I’ve been on this since Prince was on Apollonia. (actually just since late 2006.)
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July 22nd, 2008 at 7:10 am
Thanks. I was actually wondering what the FO numbers were. I want to respond to this in a new post, but that will likely be later today.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 7:10 am
@socctty: Hmm… you’re really making me interested in getting this book. Are you getting a kick back or something?
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July 22nd, 2008 at 8:35 am
@Buck: OK, I admit that “most overrated” was a bit of hyperbole on my part. That said, re: TFL, not necessarily. Even used properly (which he isn’t, which I’ll get to), his progression on each snap assuming he was not blitzing would be 1. read FB/RB. If running play going away from him, maintain backside contain, trail play. 2. If not run play, pick up RB if he comes into the flat or the short zone. 3. If no RB, rush. So, since more runs will go away from him than toward him because of the TE AND because he’s going to be responsible for that short zone/flat before he can commit to backfield penetration, his opportunities to get back there are going to limited.
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And that would be in the ideal, but that’s not how Smith uses him. Smith has him 1. read the FB/RB, 2. pick up the RB in coverage, 3. drop into zone, often toward the middle of the field. Add to that Richard Smith’s absolute refusal to send his WLB on a blitz, which we covered back in October, and you kinda get the picture as to why he doesn’t get many TFL.
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Now, I’m not saying that he couldn’t get a few more. He definitely could. And, again, I’m not saying he’s even the best WLB in our conference. I am just saying that his play is good to very good on nearly every snap and he could be even better without Richard Smith.
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EDIT: My source on TFL numbers was questionable at best, so I removed this sentence.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 9:09 am
I’ve been know to browse stats from KC and Football outsiders, but in this case I think it’s really hard to be subjective when it come to “rushes to his area”. If the rush went to his area and his responsibility was for outside contain….if he seals the edge and keeps the run to the inside and Demeco makes the tackle, then that’s +1 for Ultimate. I think there is value to be had in looking at the stats from those guys, and much more so than standard boxscores. In this case though I can think of too many scenarios that might skew the numbers.
Greenwood to me is a good player. I never understood some of the complaints. I think he is smart player who studies the game. He never seems like he’s out of position. I think he does exactly what the coaches ask of him. I don’t think he’s a pro-bowl player, but I would put him at slightly above average. I agree with Matt a little that some of his lack of big plays are the result of the system, but I also think that the lack of big plays is becuase he’s just not that spectacular play type of guy.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 9:20 am
OK, I just went through every play from last season. If we include sacks as TFL, then Ryans had 4 and Greenwood had 3. If we remove sacks, they each had 2.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 9:27 am
@Papabear: Agreed more or less across the board. Though, re: “the lack of big plays is becuase he’s just not that spectacular play type of guy,” I again pose the question of how many 4-3 WLBs ARE a big play/highlight reel type of guy. Because I can only think of one (Lance Briggs).
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July 22nd, 2008 at 10:22 am
@Matt:
I concede that point to you….it falls under the system thing somewhat. Although, when Greenwood first came to the Texans one of the soundbites thrown around was how he would be freed up to make more big plays in our system from the WLB spot than he was in Miami at SLB. That’s just spin, but for whatever reason he doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy who is ever going to wow you….just gets the job done, and there is nothing wrong with that.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 11:56 am
Who thinks Kawika Mitchell had a great year last year? Does even Ren say that?
Morlon Greenwood was among the leaders in the NFL in tackles? In what year?
Other big play, highlight reel weakside backers? How about Ernie Sims on Detroit? He’s featured in that same Bennett article you posted.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 12:02 pm
It’s hard to evaluate a lot of play for this defense because it has been totally screwed in a lot of different ways. Team game, talent deficits converting to a 4-3, injuries, defensive coordinator, etc. Few players are so good that their outstanding play shines even when they play with problems on other parts of their team. (see Ryans, Williams).
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And here is a total looking through the tea leaves sort of comment. The Texans rarely directly criticize players publicly but you can often tell what they are thinking by the praise they hand out and what they do. When they repeatedly talk about increasing the speed of the defense (talking about Adibi), I am thinking partly that they are saying something about a player like Greenwood. Adibi’s best spot would be on the weak side. //total speculation
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July 22nd, 2008 at 1:26 pm
@Sid: Ren was actually the one who came up with that example. I might have misquoted him from “very good” to “great,” but that was unintentional on my part.
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He was 14th in the league last year.
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As for Ernie Sims, even if we accept him as a second example—which I don’t think is a given, since he’s on a list of players to break out in 2008, which suggests that most people probably don’t know who he is—that brings us to TWO out of how
many 4-3 Ds in the NFL?
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@Steph: From the outset, I’ve said that, while I think Greenwood doesn’t get enough love, I have no problem replacing him if there is someone better on the team. That extends, obviously, to speed, so long as Adibi is as good in other areas. Also, you hit on something interesting with Williams and Ryans: I think people are somehow spoiled by having two legitimately great players on the same defense, so guys who are good or even very good with respect to their position but who aren’t superstars can and do get lost in the shuffle.